Monday, May 17, 2010

Why do martial artist say taekwondo is out to take money (Question continued)?

Why do martial artists say Taekwodo is out to get money, when technically, those people are paying for lessons too. Accept it. If you are paying for lessons, then the instructor likes your money way more than he likes you. Honestly, do you think these people work there @$$es of so you can be a good martial artist. Do you think they risk not having a stable job, to teach you? Please give me your honest answers %26quot;Martial artists%26quot;|||Things were not always like this.


Back in the 70%26#039;s when I started training %26quot;all%26quot; schools pushed their students hard,many to extremes.


In my opinion some of the greatest fighters ever known were active,(training,competing,teaching),in those days. I started training at %26quot;Master Young Ik Suh%26#039;s Tae Kwon Do%26quot; in 1973.


This school produced %26quot;Ray Suapia%26quot;,winner of the


%26quot;Internationals Grand Championship%26quot; at the Internationals Karate Tournament in Long Beach CA.,The worlds largest Karate tournament.This tournament attracted competitors from all over the world,the best of the best showed up.


Also his brother %26quot;Sandy Suapia%26quot;.He made a living fighting in tournaments in Europe and Asia.


This is the %26quot;old%26quot; Tae Kwon Do,Teacher Frank who answers here often,says %26quot;original%26quot;,others say %26quot;traditional%26quot; all refer to the style that has been taught to Korea%26#039;s armed forces for many,many years.Leg based,but with plenty of punches,chops,ridge hands,and elbows.


Back in the day the formula to be a great fighter was to earn a Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do,(the hard way)


and ten years Western American Boxing.Times have changed in what is considered %26quot;well rounded%26quot; and ground skills are an excellent addition.


What we have today at many neighborhood Tae Kwon do schools is a watered down sport version used in tournaments,(Tae Kwon Do tournaments),it is not a good well rounded self defense style.Many schools popped up when Tae Kwon Do was added to the events in the Olympics.Wanting to keep expenses to a minimum and save a bit here %26amp; there they agree with the insurance company %26quot;no hard sparring%26quot;.In order to keep the funds coming in many schools developed contracts,fees,and equipment sales.Quality was traded for Quantity.


To be honest I don%26#039;t see how a Martial Art teacher who has a small school here in Southern CA. could afford the rent on the school,(expensive),insurance,his house payment,insurance,his family,car payments,more insurance,electric bill,phone bill,(at home and school),and all the cost of living and having a family here.


Your question...Yes we all pay for lessons,but never in my life have I had an Instructor that liked my money more than he liked me.More than once %26quot;tears%26quot; were shed at my leaving,I don%26#039;t think the tears were for the money lost.


The schools that are often criticized here are the ones where no one is working their but off so you can be a good Martial Artist.The schools that are taking advantage are the ones taking a beating here.Problem is finding a school that teaches the %26quot;old style%26quot; Tae Kwon Do is not an easy task.Invest 5+ years of hard work in one of those schools and you will be able to take care of yourself very well.|||There are many different dojo structures.





1.) Free leasons


2.) Paid leasons that cover the costs of operating the dojo - not to make income for sensei.


3.) Paid leasons that create income for sensei.





I don%26#039;t think any of these have more or less inherent virtue that the others.





BUT.... and here%26#039;s where Tae Kwon Do comes in... there are good dojos and mcdojos (million blackbelts served). Unfortunatelly, the Tae Kwon Do and to a great extent Karate community have a larger share of mcdojos - much lower signal to noise ratio so to speak.





That doesn%26#039;t mean Tae Kwon Do or Karate are inherently bad martial arts - that is another question entirely that also doesn%26#039;t have an easy, absolutly correct answer.





It does mean that there is a reputation - chain %26#039;stores%26#039;, franchises, high fees, scheduled belt progressions, long term contracts, gis that look like a nascar driver%26#039;s race suit with patches all over the place, 20 year old instructor that has godan ranking in 4 or five related arts, full page ad in the yellow pages....





In my experience, as a GENERAL rule, the more subdued the dojo - one location, no fancy uniforms, modest fees, no contracts, testing when you are ready to test not regardless if you are ready to test, single line in the business white pages... the more likely, on average, you are dealing with a better school.





That%26#039;s just my experience and my own opinion. Not that I%26#039;m Musashi or anything, but I%26#039;ve been around the community to just know what a school is like by looking at it. Its not the money, its what the money gets you in return.





Its funny, when people feel like they are getting value for their dollar, they don%26#039;t make statements about how their teacher, vendor, whatever is only out for the money. When they feel like they got ripped off, that%26#039;s when it seems their teacher, supplier, whatever is only in it for the cash - its no different in martial arts than it is in a restaurant or a car dealership.|||There are several reasons why a lot of legitimate martial artists feel that way. First, TKD was the first style to tie a term of a contract to the achievement of the belt. The problem was many of them would go ahead and promote that student irregardless if they were ready for the purpose of getting them to sign another more lengthy contract. This is especially critical for a student in the beginning since they don%26#039;t develop a good foundation in basic technique to build from. Secondly TKD was the first style to promote students to the rank of black-belt in a year or eighteen months. Most styles it took six years to attain that rank with no guarantees. Third, TKD was the first style to promote children to the rank of black-belt younger than sixteen and in many cases younger than ten years of age. They over-use the promotion of black-belt to motivate and keep students. Fourth, TKD has mainly closed tournaments and does not generally allow other styles to compete in them even if those people are willing to fight and compete under their sets of rules. Those instructors and masters that do are generally ostracized by the others for allowing it and pressure is almost always brought to bear on them to not continue to do it. Fifth, TKD is the only style that has automatically elevated the rank of its instructors from first degree to third degree and third degree to fifth degree if they immigrate to the United States and Europe.





All of this has watered down their standards and if you compare the quality and cost of it to other styles that have not gone the same route you will see a huge difference in quality in most cases. I have literally seen TKD people that I know who hold a black-belt in TKD pull out of their bag a green belt to compete because they are not good enough to compete in the black-belt divisions in open tournaments. I have had a number of their black belts come to my studio to better learn how to fight or do forms or kata so that they could go back to their own school (where they are paying more), and be more competive.|||I think there are bad apples everywhere in all different disciplines of the arts. I think it is unfair to narrow this down to just one art. As with anything if life where you have to pay to learn something from someone else there are going to be those who will try to take advantage of you in some form and especially monetarily. Remember though, if someone has many years experience and have dedicated their lives for that to be their profession then a certain cost will have to be passed along somewhere. There more than likely is a cost for the building the dojo is located at, insurance premiums, supplies cost (heavy bags, focus mitts, etc). All of these things must be paid before the instructor or sensei gets his cut. I am by no means defending those Tae Kwon Do practioners you are speaking about, I have never even been involved in that particular art, I am just stating as a whole. At our dojo we are fortunate enough to have a very low overhead so we are able to give lessons for an affordable cost ($20/month twice weekly). I hope this helps in some way. Here is also a link to our dojo. Check it out and see what you think and good luck in the future, http://ryushinkanshitoryu.com/|||That is all i do, is teach martial arts.So I give my students there money%26#039;s worth.|||Our school makes no profit. We do not pay for rank testing. We do not sign contracts. Our fees cover rent, insurance and utilities (and sometimes they don%26#039;t even cover all this and we have to throw in some extra $ to keep the doors open).


Can all artist say the same thing of there school? I think not.


My Sensei is an accountant by day.


The reason people pick on TKD is because they have the most numerous occurrence of McDojo in America.


It is not fair to say the whole style stinks, because it doesn%26#039;t. The artist makes the style work through hard work and practice.


But all these McDojang are giving you guys a bad rep. If the TKD society wants to remain creditable they should do something about this.|||most martial and are out to take money because they don;t actually teach anyone any useful fighting.





They create a social exercise club in return for membership.|||Ok, if I understand your question then you are asking why other martial art forms are criticizing Tae Kwon Do instructors for only teaching for the money. I have to say that those people are either missinformed or had a bad experiance with one instructor. I have met many Tae Kwon Do instructors who gave out probono lessons every once and awhile because a promsing student could not afford lessons that month. I have also seen them dip out of there own pocket to take students to tournaments. However they are in buisness like all other instructors and they charge a fee just like everybody else. For people who are mad becasue they think that those instructors are charging for a useless martial art those people do not understand that a martial art form should teach more than just how to kick somebodys *** in a cage. Tae Kwon Do is a lifestyle and I feel that the discipline and respect it taught me will help me more in the future than how to defend myself in a fight that will probably never happen. I would pay for it all again.|||In most ORGANIZATIONS the instructors dont actually get paid.|||I think it has to do more with alot of people saying they wasted their money learning TKD... they still can%26#039;t defend themselves. (this is what I%26#039;ve heard so don%26#039;t blame me)





That%26#039;s why it%26#039;s called %26quot;Take One%26#039;s Dough%26quot;.

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